I make those comments, absent of any debate on the actual doctrinal issues. Which are another topic all together. I focused on the effects that this group of 7 has had, will have, and probably in and of itself cause a partial, if not total, demise of an organization they, and so many, hold dear. Especially if those many were genuinely seeking Truth, and a loving and ever-loyal Christian brotherhood.
Jesuit Scholar
JoinedPosts by Jesuit Scholar
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66
Thoughts on the current Governing Body
by JRK inhere is a list of the current governing body members:.
gerrit losch: born 1942, appointed july 1, 1994 .
guy h. pierce: born 1935, appointed oct. 1, 1999 .
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Thoughts on the current Governing Body
by JRK inhere is a list of the current governing body members:.
gerrit losch: born 1942, appointed july 1, 1994 .
guy h. pierce: born 1935, appointed oct. 1, 1999 .
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Jesuit Scholar
BTTT...
Very hitting the nail on the head JRK... Or however that expression goes... Even about Mr. Lett. I never could stand his talks, discussions at Morning Worship, or weird prayers. Have you ever heard him speak? I couldn't/can't begin to understand how someone like him would be responsible for so many millions of lives and billions of dollars in assets. Regardless, the rest of your assessment is spot on perfectly expert. I wish they could be toppled, and things were reformable. Though, one major obstacle is that they, oddly, confidently feel that they should not be held accountable. It makes me feel so uncomfortable. It's like the weird, ugly, ackward, geeky guy feeling so popular and confident, enough to get the hotttttest, nicest, smartest girl in school.
There is such a disconnect with reality, one I, believe it or not, didn't really see with the older members who, regardless of other things that can be said of them, looked forward with a gleam in their eyes. They were, I dare say now, more progressive! If you give me that. Maybe I am more profoundly now just hurt, at the selling off of Brooklyn.
Even the 'accomplishments' part of the past is gone. The memories possibly, the connect with the growth of American culture during the past two centuries, the stories of being young Bethelites, as had been Barber, Sydlik, Swingle, Klein... The stories of Couch and Larsen. All gone. Somehow now erased. Talk about robbing an entire 'brotherhood' of nostalgia and ownership of what they help buid. (ie. also Spain Branch, Ireland, Gilead, etc.)
I know, again, all nostalgia. But, I do have a heart. I'm def. not a corporate yes-man. Never was, never will be!
I guess, it saddens me more than anything, this organization could be such a force for good. And I truly believe it has been and was in some respects. Many people were helped by it, and fundamentally did contribute to the joy and satisfaction in the lives of many. I really don't see it doing that now, in the present, under these circusmances. Who wants to sit twice a week and be scolded over and over about not doing enough? Scared into submission, told to talk to strangers but not to trust them because they are evil and might want to add you on Facebook. However, you need to go to people's doors and make them invite you into their home and sit with you in their living room to discuss the most intimate parts of their lives, though if after, even becoming good friends, they choose not to agree with your beliefs, you will shun them and consider them 'mentally diseased.' And if you don't shun them, you will be immediately disfellowshipped. Oh, and that goes for loved ones and family members too. Isn't that the actual, pure definition of a 'cult?'
As I read the reflections on another thread about Gilead School, how can we ignore that there are so many genuine followers that are filled with the best qualities, whose efforts are being betrayed. How can they help not being disilussioned? Feeling abandoned? Lifeless?
I wonder those things but am reminded how 'steadfast' everyone was enouraged to be leading up to this past decade; the problem is that they have been led full force, straight for a solid brick wall!!!
"Steadfast, undaunted, in this time of the end..."
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Good to study JW past .... New "Writing Archives" under direction of the Writing Committee
by wannabefree inyes friends, it is important to understand your rich spiritual heritage as jehovah's witnesses, and so you don't have to look at old publications on your own or refer to worldly sources, the organization is pleased to select for you the history as we want you to have it and you can get it in your current watchtower.. from january 15, 2012 watchtower pg 31-32. the governing body is keenly interested in.
our theocratic history.
in commenting on the.
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Jesuit Scholar
WOBBLE: Great point!!!
" If you can change the past, you control the present.
They are the equivalent of Holocaust deniers."
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Good to study JW past .... New "Writing Archives" under direction of the Writing Committee
by wannabefree inyes friends, it is important to understand your rich spiritual heritage as jehovah's witnesses, and so you don't have to look at old publications on your own or refer to worldly sources, the organization is pleased to select for you the history as we want you to have it and you can get it in your current watchtower.. from january 15, 2012 watchtower pg 31-32. the governing body is keenly interested in.
our theocratic history.
in commenting on the.
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Jesuit Scholar
Wait, really???
Picture number 8 on page 32!!!
Now the WT is claiming being the first to have created and boldly carried the Gay Pride Flag?!?!?!
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Piggy-Back JW's on the Mormon Cult Controversy
by Momma-Tossed-Me inon a previous thread a non-jw made the linked the jw's to cult status excluding the mormons.. can we as a group add jw's to this mormon-cult controversy to get some mileage out it?.
surely there are some on this board with some media contacts that could do the trick.. make some correlation between the two comparing the relative similarities of the two.. mtm .
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Jesuit Scholar
Momma, that idea is a great PR strategy. Follow and connect similar news stories to get coverage of yours.
Especially since the decorated General Eisenhower was, reportedly, effectively raised around Jehovah's Witnesses, Bible Students, as both of his parents were associates of Russell and his mother died claiming to be associated with the Watch Tower organization and is said to have had a 'Witness' funeral, where Eisenhower spoke of his mom. (At least as accounts indicate) His home was used for meetings of the Bible Students while he was a child and growing up. Some may dispute the accuracy of some of the details, but there is such overwhelmig evidence that it was mostly the case.
Eisenhower himself did not get baptized in any church until a few days, maybe weeks, after his innaguration as president. He, a republican, served two terms as President of the United States and was previously the first ever Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces, won the war in Europe, and was eventually succeeded by a democrat, John F. Kennedy.
A VERY VERY easy connect for journalists, from cults, religion, success as a President of the United States. (With the Republican nomination issues this past week, and their conservative conference.)
Eisenhower's Watch Tower involvement did come up during his campaign, but having been a hero during World War II helped overcome that, along with his brothers' hard work to distance themselves from that past. They too had a difficulty in business and public life due to it.
Interestingly to note though, this was all in part connected with the Watch Tower's teachings and harsh stance against vaccines that made it a topic for conversation or debate. Sounds cult-ish, does it not?
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"Mentally diseased" article to be published in The Independent tomorrow
by cedars inhi everyone.
as a parting gift to you all before i take a much needed break from this forum, i thought you would be pleased to know that the independent, a leading uk newspaper, will be publishing a piece on the "mentally diseased" watchtower article in tomorrow's edition.. i would like to thank everybody who has assisted the journalist, jerome taylor, in his investigation.. best wishes to all of you,.
cedars.
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Jesuit Scholar
Wobble, sounds interesting. I am not aware of the peculiars of U.K. statutory law, you might wanna post your comment in the thread regarding the contact with the CPS. Good thoughts.
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More apostate hating from the Watchtower
by Igot2bme ini ran across this post on fb-.
the november 15, 2011 study version of the watchtower, has this to say in an article praising jehu's actions against the family of ahab.
"the prophet elisha sent one of the sons of the prophets to anoint jehu as king and to instruct him to kill every male of the apostate house of ahab.2 ki.
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"Mentally diseased" article to be published in The Independent tomorrow
by cedars inhi everyone.
as a parting gift to you all before i take a much needed break from this forum, i thought you would be pleased to know that the independent, a leading uk newspaper, will be publishing a piece on the "mentally diseased" watchtower article in tomorrow's edition.. i would like to thank everybody who has assisted the journalist, jerome taylor, in his investigation.. best wishes to all of you,.
cedars.
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Jesuit Scholar
Just some things to keep in my mind.
From a PR/Academic standpoint. Importantly, what has begun, is moving what once was a topic for blogs and posts, which go unoticed and can be duly considered started by a fringe group of disgruntled individuals, into the public square of debate.
Moving something like this into the public sphere is an essential starting point and an initial success in a PR Strategy - Now that mainstream jounralism, newspapers largly respected more for thoroughness and accuracy if not objectiveness. So, this is a great moment and huge success. At par with the Ray Franz milestone in this organization's history.
So, the follow up to keep the conversation growing, expanding, and in front of key opinion leaders, will come by the validity of the claims. So, I encourage all to continue to reach out to other organizations, especially news entities, appealing to common sense and isolate just a few talking points, avoid a heavy use of statements that make the arguement sound as if it were just sourced in what can be felt as a vengeful motivation, as that would defeat the purpose. - This would also combat the risk of being guilty of slander, etc. (I saw someone show concern about that on this thread.)
"Cover the Coverage"
Now that one, and then several, major entities covered the topic, the next strategic step mentioned above is called 'cover the coverage.' Encourage others to read what respected journalists and authorities have reported and quote their statements. Be as accurate as possible when using attribution. If anything, highlight what makes this an issue for world attention. Remember, churches and other community organizations are given implied trust by citizens in civil society. Thus, inciteful statements, like the ones being made in their literature and meetings, their stance on child abuse (Australia compliance is a huge point as it seemingly highlights their lack of proactive concern), etc. call in to question the merit of such public trust, especially if they are known for commonly approaching us in the public setting to share those ideas and beliefs, and even hope to be invited into our homes.
Lastly, I am posting something that I myself recently posted. In the actual response I made to a professed JW who commented on The Independrnt's article, I point out just the facts and what occured by the publishing of this story by The Independant. Stick to those types of talking points and then use personal stories to put a face to those points, adding actual experiences, and how it feels. Below is my second re-post on the story's comments section, where I include those intial comments to the JW and the result it had on his comments.
This was my entire summary, second, re-post:
"I find something interesting as I read through the almost 700 posts, how much professed Jehovah's Witnesses are adding to the discussions. It strikes me that there isn't much understanding of simple reasoning or common sense on their part. They lack knowledge of what Journalism is and the Ethics involved before an article like this passes editorial committee reviews, fact-checking and later its publication. The public journal is a public trust. So I felt the need to reply to the post a professed member of this religion as he pledged his loyalty with 'pride' to his organization and his onward determination to spread their teachings, as lives were at stake, he said. Including a direct statement to the reporter, "as is yours." Referring to his life. It gave me a feeling that there was a threat in that somewhere.
So, as an academic I felt the need to reply and said to him/her:
'This journalistic piece is not commenting on 'scriptural' authority or whether it is inspired of God. Nor does the reporter, seemingly, pretend to expound on theology. It is about an organization where its leadership has instructed by official congregational doctrine that all who dissent or disagree are 'mentally diseased.' And the outcry by many inside and outside of that organization.
However, I think it is worth pointing out that the following paragraph of the article in question, where the 'mentally diseased' label is introduced, paragraph 7, that same leadership states "What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, or add our comments to their blogs. Why do we take such a firm stand? Because of love. We love “the God of truth,” so we are not interested in twisted teachings that contradict his Word of truth."
It seems that maybe you are not as proud or as obedient to the instructions provided in that same article, of July 15, 2011, of The Watchtower, as you might think.
You obviously are of the group that believe you should be free from being told what to do, or what not to do, based on your ignoring the strong admonishments found on that same page of the journal. As participating through technology as is done on this thread is later classified in paragraph 15 as being guilty of falling to 'Satan's tactic' of being 'Unoccupied, gadding about.'
He soon thereafter deleted his post.'Again, this is just as an example. I'm sure you all have even better ways of approachin this, I only wanted to share some thoughts with all of you as you have my deep admiration for pursuing this!
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Widely attributed to Margaret Mead
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Mass defection possible?
by stuckinamovement inthere are many of us who are trapped within the religion and are looking at leaving.
i was wondering..... if there was an organized and well publicized effort to leave the organization en-masse on a certain date yet to be determined, how many do you think would participate?.
one person leaves the org and it creates a small ripple.
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Jesuit Scholar
Sounds more like a 'coming out day.'
I totally support a concerned and "I've had enough of this" Jehovah's Witness "Coming Out Day"
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"Mentally diseased" article to be published in The Independent tomorrow
by cedars inhi everyone.
as a parting gift to you all before i take a much needed break from this forum, i thought you would be pleased to know that the independent, a leading uk newspaper, will be publishing a piece on the "mentally diseased" watchtower article in tomorrow's edition.. i would like to thank everybody who has assisted the journalist, jerome taylor, in his investigation.. best wishes to all of you,.
cedars.
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Jesuit Scholar
I felt the need to post on the The Independant's article and did so about 6-7 times since last night. And used the pen name Concerned_Human. In case anyone is curious as to what I said. Again, I feel commendation is in order to everyone placing yourslef behind a seemingly legitimate issue of a Human Rights violation. My encouragements to all of you.